Coat Ray Chu / Knitted dress Ellis David Knitwear / Hat Misa Harada / Shoes Pleiades / Tights Falke

“I want to be thin, which, like, I always lose the baby weight anyway, but I think I kind of missed out on five years of potentially being hot. I watched other people get hotter and have access to GLP-1s. It’s my turn. Everyone else was getting hotter and thinner while I was pregnant six times in five years.”

That said, having children is not something she regrets one bit. During the shoot, she explains that she feels grateful to have been able to have them. However, this is also a moment Katherine been anticipating, and she’s already created a moodboard of inspiration.

“I don’t think it’s out of the question to be Erika Jayne hot in your 40s. I’m going for Cher. All the women I admire are much older than I am anyway, so getting older doesn’t bother me at all. I think you can be cunt if you’re older — it’s almost the perfect time to really step into it. Your priorities shift from the male gaze to the male gays, and that’s what I’m aiming for.”

As she prepares to enter a new phase of life, Katherine sits down with Principle to discuss girl groups, shitty ex-boyfriends, toxic men, feminism, her new book, plastic surgery, and what she wants to be remembered for when she’s grey and old.

Dress Hityshi / Earrings Maison Lumiere

I saw on your Instagram Story that your husband has had enough of your extensive hat collection.

So I’ve had, like, pathological sun avoidance my entire life. Even when I was a baby, if the sun touched me, I hated it. And I feel so vindicated by my son, Fred, because he hates the sun too. He picks his nails, he has all these weird little idiosyncrasies people used to blame me for having. They’d be like, ‘You’re making it up,’ and I’m like, no, my son hates these things too. I can see it from birth.”

And from birth, I hated the sun. I have no melanin, I’m maybe the whitest person in the world. I’ve had skin cancer twice, so hats are a big thing for me. Although my husband has basically put his foot down and said: no more hats.

Are you a hoarder?

No. If I showed you my home, you’d see that my husband and I aren’t hoarders at all, we have a really clean house. But I do hold onto certain special things, because my husband is the complete opposite. He throws everything away. If it’s in his path, he’ll get rid of it. He’ll throw away books, baby things, I’m like, ‘We have another baby who’s going to need that.’ So I end up buying things three times. I think it’s not sustainable. I think my husband’s bad for the planet, so I hold onto things and keep them. I also don’t participate in fast fashion at all. I have nice things, and I’ve held onto them forever. And I’m in a position where I can do that. I wish I’d had the financial resources in the ’90s to accumulate cool things. My daughter would be in heaven. But I’m doing that now. And yeah, I just keep things for a long time. And the hats, I’ll use the hats. I’ll wear the hats.

Is there anything you collect that people would think is weird or random?

I have cremated dogs, they were our dogs, though. I have them in different urns displayed on the mantelpiece. We’ve had four dogs and lost four dogs because they got old. We keep them for a long time. I’m starting to sound like a suspect But they were very little dogs. I’m from, like, the Paris Hilton generation, they were all those kinds of dogs.

I collect the children’s teeth too. I keep them in a jewellery box. I might have them made into something one day. I also collect hats. What else do I have? I don’t like knick-knacks or anything like that; I definitely don’t have those. But I do keep Artipoppe baby carriers, which are, like, £400 to £600 each. They’re a huge thing in the mum market, and I collect and save those forever. I keep them in a box, they’re special.

Dress Jennifer Milleder / Shoes Kurt Geiger

Talking of teeth, I remember Kesha asking fans to send her their teeth and using them to create a bra, a headdress, earrings, and necklaces. She aimed to wear her fans’ energy during performances. Google says she received over 1,000 donations.

I don’t like that because I worry that these kids are so obsessed and they’re pulling out their teeth. 

Right?! What’s an unnecessary luxury you can’t live without?

I think I have to stay in quite nice hotels, and that’s because I tour. I haven’t toured since the baby was born, but when you spend a lot of time away from home, you at least want it to be nice. So I’m a bit of a snob about hotels and holidays, and I do have certain deal-breakers. If the shampoo and conditioner are attached to the wall, I will leave. I don’t trust that hotel. That hotel doesn’t trust me. That hotel thinks I’m some kind of Molton Brown thief. I’m not, thank you very much. If you don’t trust me not to steal the toiletries, I’m not staying there.

Have you ever stolen the shampoos?

No, I love the trust. There are so many really nice hotels. The Westbury in Dublin, is that what it’s called? That hotel has this, like, opulent minibar. They’ll just give you whatever you want. You should be able to go into a hotel and have everything there already. You shouldn’t have to call down for it. They should make really high-end coffee, put out amazing designer shampoos and toiletries, give you razors too, and just trust you not to steal it. When you show me trust, and that’s my love language, that means everything to me. That’s why I tell everybody secrets, and why I want people to tell me theirs.  I feel so offended when a hotel locks down the shampoo. I’m gone. 

Dress Astha Garg / Earrings Completed Works

Have you ever stormed out because of it?

Yeah. Every time I see it, I will not stay there. Usually when you stay in a five-star hotel you would not expect to see that, but if I do, I’m like, ‘Bobby, we’re gone.’ I don’t storm around, and I’m never rude to anyone in customer service or hospitality. I love them—they’re doing God’s work. They work hard.

You moved to the UK in 2008. What’s your favourite thing about it here?

I think everyone here is funny. Honestly, so many people shamefully make me feel inadequate because they’ll be, like, a cardiologist doing an incredibly important job, and they’re also super, super funny. People here have a sense of humour about themselves. You don’t have to be a comedian to have a sense of humour about life, to be self-deprecating. It just gives you such a better life. I wish humourless people understood that more. If you can laugh at yourself, you generally don’t take everything so seriously. And I love that about this country. I also love that people drink on the street any day of the week. People will be spilling out of a pub having a pint on a Monday afternoon, I love that.

Is that not a thing in Canada?

We don’t work more, absolutely not. And we definitely don’t take babies into pubs and bars. Maybe I can’t speak for all of Canada, but certainly where I grew up, you might see a child in a family restaurant like Denny’s. But in a pub or bar after 5pm? Absolutely not. Those kids are with grandparents or babysitters. I don’t know where those kids are.

What’s something Canada has that the UK lacks?

You could have more snow. Snow is very wholesome and picturesque at Christmas, and yeah, it can be an inconvenience when you’re digging your car out at 5am trying to get to work and the roads are slow. But we still operate. I guess you guys can’t really handle snow because when you do get it, everything shuts down. But of course you don’t have the infrastructure for it. If you had loads of snow, you’d build the infrastructure to deal with it, and then you could actually enjoy it. And you’d all be much better ice skaters. It’s really shameful at Christmas watching everyone slipping and sliding around.

Coat Ray Chu / Knitted dress Ellis David Knitwear / Hat Misa Harada / Shoes Pleiades / Tights Falke

You’re a lover of girl groups, and a Spice Girls fan. Who is your favourite member?

I have to say Mel B because I attended her wedding. She interacts with me the most, and I really appreciate everything she’s done to combat domestic abuse and raise awareness for important causes. I love her. She loves comedy too. She comes to my shows and to shows by other comedians I know. She’s just really down to earth and loves to laugh.

Growing up, was she always your favourite?

No. I think growing up, when the Spice Girls came out, I was probably about 12, and we all aligned ourselves with whoever we looked most like because that’s just what you did. I was Ginger. I was Geri, before she got a little kooky, dressed in all beige and dated troubled men. But I loved Baby Spice. The prettiest girl in the group, the softest one, would always be Baby Spice. I just wasn’t feminine enough for that. But I was a bit ginger, so I got to be Geri.

You once admitted that one of your ex-boyfriends cheated on you with the “hot one” from a particular girl group. Cheating aside, are you still able to enjoy the group?

I never faltered in my adoration of this girl group. Even when he cheated on me, I was like, ‘Yeah, but I loved the girl group.’ I’ll tell you privately who it was. 

Will I be able to instantly tell by “the hot one?”

Yes. No offense to the others, but I think there is only one hot one. So good for him.

Dress Poet Lab / Hat Misa Harada / Ring & Earring Maison Lumiere

What’s the biggest relationship red flag you have ignored?

Loads. Oh my gosh, I ignored so many red flags for so long. I had a period of my life where I was dating just terrible guys, then I dated one nice guy, and then my husband, thank God. But I mean, it was touch and go for a while. I think one of the first red flags was when a man was loads older than me, and I didn’t see that as a red flag at the time.

How old were you?

When I was 17, I had a brief dalliance with a 31-year-old, and I thought I was mature. I thought I was cool. Looking back, what a loser. And then I dated a guy for a few years who was in his mid-30s while I was in my early 20s. Now, as a woman in my 40s, I see those things as red flags because they want you to be a little vulnerable. They like that your frontal lobe is still developing.

The Leonardo DiCaprio. 

Yeah. Not only do they objectify you and fetishise your youth and beauty, but I think there’s a sinister angle to it too. It’s about domination and control. At the time, I didn’t realise those men were dating 20-year-old girls because 35-year-old women wouldn’t talk to them. Those men were such losers. And honestly, they all went on to become massive losers. They should never have had access to me. I wouldn’t give them access to me now. But they’re older now, and some of them are still dating 20-year-olds. They just go for people who are more and more vulnerable, which is really sad. And then, once women in the Western world become empowered and that dries up for them, they go abroad and find someone even more vulnerable. I don’t like it.

Icky.

That’s why I speak out about it a lot, especially through jokes and comedy. And then men will say, ‘Oh, you’re just jealous.’ Trust me, no. That’s why having my husband is handy. I’m like, ‘Look at my husband. He’s fit, he’s nice, he’s athletic.’ He’s basically a quote-unquote ‘Chad’ to a lot of these guys, so there’s nothing they can really say about him. He’s the kind of guy they’re trying to be, and I’m with him, so am I jealous? No. Grow up. Stop being such a pedo.

I see that you get lots of weird, creepy comments on your socials too. How is that? And how are you able to deal with it?

On a personal level, it doesn’t bother me. I love engagement because it’s kind of how I learn about these things. 

Dress Hityshi / Earrings Maison Lumiere

It creates conversation too.

I never mind being the catalyst for a conversation, even at my own expense. I’m really curious about what people are saying, what the vibe is, how people feel. So the latest thing I put up was a letter to my podcast from a woman whose husband was demanding weekly sex and, on two occasions, installed hidden cameras in the bedroom. The amount of comments defending this man was really scary to me. I thought, ‘A lot of people are married to men like this, men who feel entitled to access your body.’ It sucks. And on one level, I understand there’s an expectation of intimacy in a romantic relationship, but that’s where my agreement ends. You can’t just take it. Some people don’t understand consent. And what it illuminated for me is that there are loads of good guys, of course, there are. But those good guys can be so defensive about being ‘good guys’ that they still excuse or justify the behaviour of the bad ones. “I read something that said men will never dismantle the patriarchy because it benefits them. Even if they’re not doing anything wrong, they still get to be the ‘good guys’ – the ones saving you from the bad guys – while you’re still dealing with the fallout. And that dynamic just benefits them, so it will never really change.

I saw a TikTok of a resurfaced clip from Emma Watson explaining that men can be feminists. Many of the top comments disagreed. What’s your stance on it?

Of course I think men can be feminists. I see very few of them, and I also see a hugely inflated misalignment with what feminism actually is. So there are men who go, ‘No, I’m not a feminist, I believe in equality.’ In my definition – and I think the dictionary definition – feminism is just equality. But it’s been twisted into something it’s not, and they go, ‘I’m not a feminist because I don’t hate men.’ And you’re like, well, it doesn’t mean that.

You’ve been very open about cosmetic and plastic surgery. Despite having a fair few procedures, you have maintained looking like yourself. Has that been intentional?

Yeah, I think I have a really healthy relationship with tweakments and cosmetic surgery. I never wanted to look different. I think, as a young woman, I had an idea in my head of what I wanted to look like, and at the time, it was Britney Spears — Britney Jean Spears. I wanted to be tanned, I wanted to be blonde, I wanted to have breast implants, straight teeth, and just be pretty. And that has never really changed. I don’t want to be tanned anymore; I’ve given up. But yeah, I’ve never had any surgery on my face until this facelift. I’ve had fillers and Botox and things, and breast implants, and that’s it. But I think I talk about it and I exaggerate the truth a bit just because I think it’s funny. I think it’s good to be candid if you have the confidence to be candid. Because then you don’t set unrealistic expectations for other people. But if I can joke about anything, I’ll mine it for all it’s worth.

Dress Jennifer Milleder / Shoes Kurt Geiger

There was an article from a journalist saying they were offended you had a facelift at 42. 

It didn’t offend me at all. The article was actually really nice about me. But yeah, I think there’s this idea that if you do anything to alter your appearance, then you’re participating in a really toxic system and making it harder for other people to age naturally, because you’re chasing youth or whatever it is. But I just feel like I’d love to change the world and have everyone feel totally comfortable in their own skin. And ideally, you shouldn’t risk your life and have a general anaesthetic for surgery. But what can I say? I really wanted to. And it looks good. I never really had a neck the way I do now. I think it’s so elegant. I’m happy that I did it. And yeah, I did it. I’m not perfect.

I don’t have a problem with people who don’t admit to having surgery per se, but when people are asked about it and flat out lie.

Yeah, I do think that can be really damaging to people who go, ‘Oh, well then I should be ageing the same way.’ At least people know with me that there was an emergency surgery involved with this facelift. I did it partly out of curiosity, because it’s been more of a trend lately for younger women to get facelifts. I was really curious—like, did she have a facelift? Did she have a facelift? Did she? And really, having my own facelift is the only way I could find out. Because we have this idea that if you have a facelift, you look like Jocelyn Wildenstein. I genuinely believe if I hadn’t said anything, people wouldn’t have noticed. I don’t really look different. So that’s why I said it. I loved the girl who said, ‘Oh, I’m icing my face,’ and ‘when I came out of surgery, I was icing my face.’ And I laughed to myself alone in the hotel room, I was like, ‘Ha, I’m icing my face too, bitch, as part of my recovery from my facelift that you also had.’

Older celebrities are not really willing to talk about it. However, the younger generation don’t seem too bothered.

I think we are being far more open about it, and our grandmothers used to lie about dyeing their hair. So every generation is just becoming a lot more self-accepting. But there is still stigma attached to it.

Dress Astha Garg / Earrings Completed Works

There’s never that same stigma with men.

And the men are having facelifts too. I think it’s even more shameful for a man to have a facelift because it’s so new in this culture. There’s no way Brad Pitt would ever really say, ‘Yep, got a facelift.’ Imagine if he did, the conversation we could have, allegedly, if he had a facelift.

What’s a TV show that keeps calling that you keep turning down?

I have not been explicitly offered Strictly or The Jungle [I’m A Celebrity… Get Me out of Here!], but they have inquired a few times, and I just think it’s too far away for my kids or too much work. If I embarked on something like Strictly, you just don’t see your family; it’s too intense. So there are things I feel prohibited from doing as a mum, and it’s difficult to contain the feminist rage I have sometimes that it’s not fair. I have this childlike voice of, ‘It’s not fair.’ I see dads doing things; they’ll be in South Africa, and I’m like, ‘Oh, you just had another baby? Oh yes.’ Their bodies haven’t changed, they’re not breastfeeding, they’re not with their kids. They can just go anywhere and do anything, and there’s a wife at home keeping it together. Even though Bobby is a stay-at-home dad, I still feel limited in what I can do when I have small children, but that’s a choice I made, and I just have to wait.

But this is why this is my breakout hot year, because I’ve been spending all this time turning down travel shows and commitments because of the kids. I do have some traditional views about parenting, and I just think if their mum’s not around, I’m sorry, I do think they’ll grow up to be, like, a reformed MP or something weird.

You are releasing another book this year. Tell me about it. 

It’s called Firstborn Daughter. It’s kind of about me and my life, my set-up, and everything that’s gone on in the last five years since my first book. But also the hyper-independence that firstborn daughters seem to collectively have, because we have that as a trauma response. I don’t know, just the unique way really independent women grow up. And I noticed, doing my shows, that I would say something about being a firstborn daughter, firstborn granddaughter, firstborn niece, and so many women in the audience were also firstborn daughters. So I started exploring that a bit more, talking about motherhood, feminist issues, and pop culture. It’s just a fun book.

Has it been therapeutic writing it?

Yeah, I think getting stuff out is therapeutic, and I have longer-form ways to do that now, like on my podcast. With stand-up, you don’t really get to dig into things in the same way. My podcast, I do, but this is even more of a specific, thoughtful release of all that stuff that’s hopefully still funny. It’s a lot about my journey. I think I didn’t really reflect on my position in my family, my childhood, my relationship with my mother, or my relationship with my kids until I came to the end. When you reach an ending, I think you take stock of what came before. And now I’m looking back on all of that stuff. What a whirlwind it’s been. I like writing because people leave you alone. 

Coat Ray Chu / Knitted dress Ellis David Knitwear / Hat Misa Harada / Shoes Pleiades / Tights Falke

Who would be your dream guest on your What’s My Age Again? Podcast?

If I could have anyone, well, it would be very interesting to have Céline Dion, because she’s got an autoimmune disease. I’m very interested in the effect that has on your body, stress. She’s been through heartbreak, and she’s had such a journey. It really is just an interview format around this reveal of the biological age test. So yes, it would be Céline Dion, but there are many people I’d still love to have on the show.

In 30 years time, what do you want your legacy to be?

I want to be remembered as, like, a modern witch. Like I would have been burned. I want my future descendants to look back and I’d like to be remembered as pivotal, like Kris Jenner, in changing the trajectory of all of their lives. I got out of this small town. I was the first woman in my family to own a house all on her own and to do these things. And I’m not taking all the credit, culture shifted in a way that allowed me those opportunities because of the sacrifices that women before me made. But yeah, when you look back at women and you go, ‘Oh, she was a witch,’ or ‘Mary Magdalene was a whore,’ I’d like to be remembered as a real problem, a real troublemaker, a disruptor.

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